In addition to entertainment, serving as a record of that era

Doba　Hasn't the number of TV dramas with unhappy ending decreased since the 1980s? Upon entering the 21st century, I feel like all of society has become sweet and soft.

Usami　The bubble period of the 1980s was the pinnacle for lightweight romantic TV dramas. That was followed by a backlash of an increase in dark dramas. In the mid-1990s, highly popular dramas included Child Without a Home, which is famous for the line "Don't pity me, just give me money." The next wave brought programs with a slight message of hope, such as dramas in which female office workers engaged in soul-searching. In the 2000s, the most popular dramas featured characters that devote themselves completely to love. Some examples include Crying Out Love, In the Center of the World and the Korean drama Winter Sonata. In reflection, recent years have certainly brought an increase in sweet stories. Do you feel that older TV dramas were more powerful?

Doba　I do. However, that's because I watched those TV dramas through the pure emotions of the child that I was. I would never generalize and say that all recent TV dramas are boring. If I were to say such a thing, it would mean that my sensibility has grown stale! Still, I do get the impression that dramas nowadays lack a critical spirit. Indeed, in the case of TV dramas, it is difficult to realize a metadrama which criticizes such dramas themselves. In the case of novels, metafiction can be written quite easily.

Usami　That's true. While there are TV dramas which portray the television industry, they don't criticize the industry. Even so, there are scriptwriters such as Shinji Nojima and Yuji Sakamoto who deal with serious themes. There is also television staff that possesses the grit to create dramas which convey such themes. As is only natural, creators want to make dramas which are judged on content in addition to ratings. We as researchers must support such aspirations. Moreover, despite the sweetening of society as a whole, there are still fans of stalwart works like your novels.

Doba　Most of the people reading my novels are from my generation, which means that they are in their 50s. When we were younger, we read adult-oriented novels which were beyond our years. However, that isn't necessarily the case today. On a different note, I find it interesting to feel changes in youth culture by watching older TV dramas. Such dramas strongly reflect the youth fashion and way of thinking in that era.

Usami　As an example of TV dramas which show past youth culture, I wish I could discuss the Toho Seishun Academy series broadcast in the 1960s. Unfortunately, no film remains from the early period of this series. TV dramas in that era have great meaning as a testimony and record of the age. As a researcher, I really wish that film of the drama remained.

Doba　Actually, I hope to preserve such a record within novels that I will write. I want to write about characteristics of the era and real events which make it possible to assess the specific date. In particular, the transportation network and scenery in Tokyo often change overnight. Although preparation is difficult, it is easier to preserve such a record in novels than in TV dramas. Dramas remain as images, so it is quite difficult even when considering only the timing of filming.

Usami　What you are aiming to do is very meaningful. There are some authors who don't want to have the time of their work identified and purposely leave out characteristic of the time. In contrast, you are actively trying to convey such information. I believe that future researchers will want to analyze that feature of your novels.

Following literature, conveying entertainment novels to overseas

Usami　In recent years, there are an increasing number of cases in which TV dramas and novels impact each other. Mr. Doba, have you been affected by the dramatization of your novels?

Doba　Visual images are really powerful. Therefore, after one volume of a series has been dramatized, I am careful not to be influenced by the TV drama when writing subsequent installments for the series. Conversely, there are some readers who may perceive differences in the image of the original novel and the TV drama. One frightening aspect of novels is that a person who read the original novel before seeing the drama has often created their own image of the main character. I frequently hear about fans of the original novel becoming very angry upon seeing the drama.

Usami　What you say reminds me of literary theory dealing with the horizons of expectations. This theory refers to how the latent desire of a reader to receive certain impressions is reflected on the material being read. When novels are turned into movies and TV dramas, there is an increase in people touched by the work. In turn, this increases the possibility of influence on the scriptwriter and producer. Contents are changed so that more people can identify with the work. Settings not found in the novel are added to the drama. An older example of this is The Phantom of the Opera, while a newer example is Crying Out Love, In the Center of the World.

Doba　As both a musical and movie, The Phantom of the Opera leaves a lasting impression as a love story. A reason for this is that the original work closely resembles a ghost story. I feel that the horizons of expectations theory which you mentioned explain the popularity of surprise endings in novels. I refer to this trend as "Jeffery Deaver Syndrome" in honor of an author who was highly proficient at writing surprise endings. Although I personally don't care for surprise endings, many people enjoy them.

Usami　Surprise endings almost never happen in real life. As such, they are events lacking in reality. However, if a viewer becomes engrossed in a totally unrealistic world like that of a Korean drama, then the viewer begins to see that world as real. Producers of such dramas focus on engrossing viewers to such an extent. On the topic of Korean dramas, the reason that they have become so popular in Japan is because they were initially made to be successful overseas. Although some Japanese TV dramas are highly popular overseas, they weren't made with overseas audiences in mind. These two methods of creating dramas are completely different and in no way is one better than the other. However, Japanese novels have already received high recognition overseas. Mr. Doba, your works are read broadly throughout Asia.

Doba　Japan already possesses a great deal of world literature which portrays universal evil and justice. This literature will be read by a broad variety of people, not just foreigners seeking exoticism. In the future, we mystery writers have to make our mark on the world. Attention is being given to who will be the first Japanese author to win the MWA Award (award of the Mystery Writers of America).

Usami　I sincerely hope that you will win that award! In the past, overseas bookstores sold only a few works by Japanese authors such as Junichiro Tanizaki, Yukio Mishima and Yasunari Kawabata. However, from about 10 years ago, overseas bookstores started to carry modern novels by authors including Haruki Murakami. Again, this is proof of the high recognition gained by Japanese novels, regardless of concepts such as exoticism and Cool Japan.

Doba　I hope that works depicting modern Japan will become accepted more broadly overseas. I take pride in writing about modern Japan as entertainment. I hope to promote my novels overseas. While cooperating with publishing companies, I want to spread Japanese mystery novels to readers throughout the world.

Usami　I look forward to you doing so. We researchers will thoroughly analyze Japanese novels and TV dramas in order to convey the appeal of these works and the ideas of authors in an easy-to-understand manner to overseas readers and future generations. Thank you very much for your time today.