Matsumoto Koshiro: This white dial looks translucent and glossy. I feel a sense of graciousness from it. I understand that with a metal dial, it may be difficult to create a gentle appearance to such an extent.

Hiroyuki Hashiguchi: That is right. I believe that I have been able to generate the very quality unique to Arita porcelain. I gave this porcelain dial an image of “suigetsu” (the moon on the water), the poetical style favored by Japanese nobilities in the Heian period (794-1192). They are said to have observed the moon not directly but by the sway on the surface of the water.

Matsumoto: I suppose that, unlike creating a typical artwork, you had to work under restraints and difficulties to produce a high-precision industrial part.

Hashiguchi: Exactly. The first thing I had to do was to high-fire the base of what would eventually become the dial at 1,300 degrees Celsius. The next step was to apply glazes and fire it again at about 1,100 degrees. Finally, I made a hole on the porcelain for the watch hands and gave a finishing fire to it. In each firing phase, the porcelain would contract in size very delicately. On the other hand, I had to produce a dial that required precision in units of 10 microns. Moreover, I needed to go through the same firing process many times to produce identical dials in large amounts. As I had had no experience of working that way, it was literally an endless process of trial and error.

Matsumoto: So, you had to not only realize the beauty of artistry, but also meet the criteria for industrial products for daily use.

Hashiguchi: As for durability, I had to ensure that my products would pass the stern proprietary criteria set by Seiko. They would not accept anything that “looks beautiful, yet is prone to breaking only after being used just for a while.” Therefore, I sought cooperation from the Saga Ceramics Research Laboratory to use its high-precision molds and developed ceramic materials for porcelain on my own.

Matsumoto: (Listens attentively to the craftsman who is willing to explore new possibilities while upholding the tradition of Arita porcelain. He gives a deep nod to the ceramic artisan.)

Matsumoto: You have overcome such a high hurdle by adopting state-of-the-art technology while continuously enhancing your craftsmanship. My father, Hakuo Matsumoto, always says, “Kabuki actors are artisans.” He means that each kabuki actor should be an “artisan” who preserves and hands down tradition to future generations, rather than being an “artist” who showcases his individuality. As such, when performing as (12th-centry warrior-monk) Musashibo Benkei in the classic play “Kanjincho” (Donation List), I do not think that I should try to perform the character in my own style. Instead, I always endeavor to convey the charm of the art of kabuki that has been inherited generation after generation.

Hashiguchi: My job is similar to yours. In porcelain production, each finished product is subtly different, depending on the size of clay particles, amounts of water used for mixing clay and weather. Usually, such a difference is regarded as a taste unique to it. This time, I had to find a solution to consistently express the singularity of Arita porcelain on each watch dial that requires a level of high precision and high accuracy. In that sense, this project has expanded the potential of the porcelain industry.

Matsumoto: As a kabuki actor, I feel encouraged by what you just told me. In addition to classic kabuki plays, I have been actively staging Shakespeare plays and an original kabuki play based on a Chaplin film, among other innovative forms of performing. I also staged in Las Vegas in collaboration with teamLab (a Tokyo-based company) and chose a skating rink, not a theater, to introduce a new play.

Hashiguchi: Traditional craftsmanship and traditional performing arts may be left behind the times if we continue to simply follow traditions day after day.

Matsumoto: I have occasionally been chided by some people, who say, “Is what you perform a kabuki play?” But I would like to continue to further broaden the potential of kabuki as an entertainment experience by taking on more innovative challenges. I think that innovation should be always embedded in any tradition if you really want it preserved. If something is old yet really good, it is new in reality. I feel that this Presage watch equipped with an Arita porcelain dial actually proves that, indeed.